Side by side pistol review - CZ P-09 and a Glock 17 Gen 3 (Part 2)

Part 2 - There and back again, the Glock tale.  

Glock 17 Gen 3 (OD)

With my favorite Glock shop slowly running down their Gen 3 Olive Drab inventory and no near term hope of finding more, I've been on a quest to grab the ones that I want before they are on hiatus.  (You know, until Glock figures they can make money on another run.)

First things first.  I'm not a big fan of Glock's factory sights.   Having had good luck with Sevigny Performance in the past, I went ahead and ordered a set of their carry sights.  ($70)  When they showed up, a quick trip to Glockmeister got them installed and one of their budget trigger jobs applied.  ("-" connector and a reduced power trigger spring) ($30)

First impressions at the range...

Bang
*ouch*

Fuck

Bang

*ouch*

Fuck

Evidently, Like a lot of others I was hit with a Gen 3 Glock that ejected straight back and not off to the right.

I freaking loved the setup.  I was shooting fantastic groups with that setup.  But man, 4 out of 5 rounds were straight back at the person behind the trigger.   I even had one of my buddies take a few shots with it to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong. 

Range trip #1 - Failed.

If I was smart, I'd have shipped it off to Glock for warranty repair immediately.  But I'm not, and didn't want the headache.   So first stop was back to my local Glock dealer and swapped out the ejector and extractor with factory new replacement parts.  ($27)

The next day after work, it was back to the range.  Same problem, no changes.

Bang
*ouch*

Fuck

Bang

*ouch*

Fuck

On this trip I was smart enough to wear a hat at least.   So by tipping the bill down, I'd keep it off my face and away from my glasses.

Range trip #2 - Failed.

Some advice from the forums I frequent had me looking for alternatives.   The recommendation was three fold:

1) Replace the stock 336 ejector with the 274 (Spare already on hand)

2) Replace the plunger assembly with the HRED from White Sound from CPWSA.com ($26)

3) Replace the stock extractor with the APEX Failure Resistant Extractor ($68)

It took a few days for the parts to show up and get time to head back to the range.  But both CPWSA and Apex shipped prompty and the product delivered was pretty slick.

Off to the range I went for attempt #3.

Perfect ejection at 90 degrees to the shooter on the first 4 rounds.   Then I started seeing 2-3 stovepipes 15 rounds.   Completely unreliable.    There was a lot of swearing on my part.

Range trip #3 - Failed.

At this point I contacted Glock and got a return authorized.  I was done.  Reading on the forums, I wasn't optimistic.  There were horror stories of 3-4 trips not resolving the problem.

So I stripped out the 274 ejector, returned the stock OEM trigger parts, plunger and extractor and got it ready to ship.

The shipping label showed up the next day.   The pistol shipped out on the 13th and it was available at my house on the 22nd.   If you exclude the partial days, it was less than 9 days door to door.   Not bad, especially around the holidays.

I picked it up from the depot and was at the range within hours.   200 rounds, both 115g and 147g and only 1 back at my head.  I'll call that a win.

Range trip #4 - Success.

Putting back in the upgraded trigger parts, and another range trip had the same results.

So let's recap:

Original Gen 3 Glock - $499

Decent sights - $70

Get the trigger down to #4.5lbs - $30

Repairs paid for to avoid sending it back that didn't work - $27

Alternative parts to avoid sending it back - $94

We'll assume for the argument's sake, that my time doesn't carry and value and the 500+ rounds expended in testing were fun, even if it was frustrating.

Total cost of this misadventure: $720 and a few months of elapsed time

I want to shoot it a bit more and get comfortable with it before I try the HRED and APEX parts again.  

Is that all Glock's fault? No. I chose to try a bunch of things without just sending it back.  Lesson learned.   

I'd review how it actually shot, but well, it's a Glock 17.   There is nothing magical or special.  It's the baseline for most modern pistols to be measured against.   Hopefully it now ends up as boringly reliable as my other Glock pistols.

And finally..  the comparison - CZ P-09 vs. the Glock 17 Gen 3.

What strikes me most though, when I look between the two pistols is what they are out of the box.

The single action trigger pull on the CZ P-09 wins.  The Glock, reduced to 4.5#, is better than the CZ-P09 double action.   Glock wins if you're measuring consistency.   The CZ wins if you want a better trigger pull without having to replace any factory parts. 

The CZ also ships with decent nights sights.  No need to replace them.

Both come with two mags, so it's a draw with the out of the box options, but the Glock mags are cheaper.  $44 each for the CZ mags, $29 or so for the Glock.  (I'm sure when Mec Gar starts making a CZ P-09 mag, we'll see that gap close.)

I'm shooting better groups with the CZ, but it's anecdotal at this point.  I'll pull in a friend in the next weeks and do some side by side shooting for groups out of a clean barrel and see how it goes.

Side by side pistol review - CZ P-09 and a Glock 17 Gen 3 (Part 1)

First, a current picture of each pistol, purchased new in the last two months:

Notice anything odd about those pictures?   On the left, the CZ-P09, on the right, the  Glock.   Although to be fair, it's hard to see the Glock as it's at the factory in Georgia, hopefully getting fixed in a way that doesn't cause me to take a piece of brass to the face on 4 out of 5 trigger pulls.  More on that later.

A bit of a disclaimer, I'm a self aware enough to admit that I'm a Glock and CZ fanboy of the first order.   I'm predisposed to like both pistols and have previously owned a G17 Gen 3 before getting it into the hands of my brother.   Take this review for what it is, a hobbyist shooter who loves pretty much everything CZ and Glock have made in the last decade.

The CZ P-09  (CZ USA P09)

I first read about this over on the Brian Enos Forums and later came across a review by John McPhee.  You can find it here.    Most of the comments had been pretty positive and I was due for a new pistol to play with.   So.. a few days later I found myself at the CZ Custom Shop filling out a 4473. 

What struck me the most as I unboxed it was the number of improvements they had put into this pistol that still carried a lot of the CZ 75 and SP-01's DNA, all for the better.

On the 75, you have just a small patch of fine serrations toward the rear of the slide.   It's one of the most common complaints of shooters I have try my 75. They don't feel like they get a good grip on the slide.  With it being just half height and such fine serrations, it's like grabbing a cheese grater.   The SP-01 was a step up, they had fine serrations at the front and rear, but the same fine pattern.  The CZ-P09 though has big, thick heavy serrations front and rear.   They are easy to grab and you get a firm grip, even with the rather narrow slide height.  I'm don't normally press check from the front of the slide, but I tried it a few times and it's infinitely easier than with the 75 or SP-01.

The slide release as well has big aggressive serrations.  It's very easy to manipulate.  (I can't speak to the safety, as I'm still running the decocker.  It does ship with the safety in the box and it's intended to be user swapable.

The magazine release is big and easy to hit.   It's in the right place for my hand and it worked naturally without having to stretch. 

The grip is the other big improvement.  The P-09 comes with three interchangeable back straps.  I've continued to run the 'small' even though I have pretty good sized hands.  

What I noticed most about the grip was that it's narrow and feels more like a 1911 than a CZ.   The angle is natural and comfortable to shoot from.   (This surprised me, as it's sporting a 19 round magazine, I expected it was going to be more akin to a double stack 2011...)

Speaking of the magazine, one quick item.  It's metal and fairly expensive, almost 20 bucks more than a good deal on the G17 mags.  I'm still not sure how a full sized Glock 17 mag holds 17 rounds and the 22 in 40 S&W holds 15, while the 19 round CZ mag in 9mm only makes 15 rounds in 40 S&W.  I'm positive there should be an extra round in there.

Let's look at the price tags.  The Gen 3 17 in OD ran me $499.  The CZ P-09 was $544.  Given that the P-09 ships with pretty decent night sights, the price edge to me goes with the CZ.  (I'm not a fan of the stock Glock sights and the end up getting replaced at a fair cost every time I buy one.)

What can I say about the P-09 trigger?  In SA mode it is by far the best production pistol trigger I've ever used.   Out of the box my Lyman trigger gauge, using a 5 shot average, put weigh at 4 lbs 2 oz.  I compared that to a factory CZ 75B trigger in SA mode averaging 6 lbs 12oz.   My factory glock trigger, before any changes, was an even 7 lbs.

I picked it up and in SA mode it shot almost as well as my CZ Custom Shop SP-01 Shadow SAO.   It's that good.  The bottom circle below was a 35 round group at 7 yards.   This is about as well as I shoot.  (Hey, if you wanted a professional review, you'd be reading McPhee's article.)

I'm going to hold off on judgement of trigger in DA mode.   My shooting of DA isn't pretty and I'm pretty sure I'm not capable of doing this pistol any justice.   I will say that it has a long, sort of gritty DA trigger pull.   I need a lot more practice and maybe it gets a trip through the CZ Custom shop to smooth it out.  It's very much on par with the CZ 75B stock DA trigger pulls.

It's still early in the life of the P-09 and the book wont' be closed until it proves it's reliability.   200 Rounds in, firing a combination of 115, 124 and 147 grain FMJ ammunition and it's run perfectly without a failure.   

It's a great shooting pistol.  Hopefully the Glock gets back from being serviced and I can finish the second half of this post....   #glockperfection    

Not to be snarky, but the CZ ejected every round with a good robust ejection at a perfect 90 degrees to my right..  So for those keeping score at home:

CZ-P09 - 0 of 200 pieces of brass ejected into my face.

Glock 17 - 160 of 200 pieces ejected into my face.

Anyone want to guess as to the number of trips back to Georgia my 17 is going to take to get this resolved?  

Reloading Product Review - Inline Fabrication Powder Measure Articulating Arm

http://inlinefabrication.com/collections/press-accessories/products/powder-measure-articulating-arm

Hopefully Inline Fabrication won't get too grumpy I mooched their image to use. My bench is currently a disaster area and nobody needs to see that...

Facing a lot of single stage press working doing some oddball pistol calibers that aren't worth setting up my Dillon for, I wanted something to help speed up the process.   With my bench setup, there wasn't a great place to mount the measure without having some really inefficient motion.  (I have drawers along my bench, so there isn't somewhere handy to mount one that wouldn't block the drawers.)

Just by chance, I wandered through their website and found this.  It saved me tinkering together some sort of home brew version.  

Per my other experience with Inline, the order went smoothly and it even shipped the same day.  (I see they are offering free shipping on this product now as well.)

So, how does it perform?

Extremely well.  A few notes:

It's stable.  The bushing system they use allow it to be swung into position and tightened down.  It stays where you put it and doesn't noticeably flex or shift when you swing the powder measure arm.   It's also stable enough that it's just as consistent as when the measure was mounted directly to my bench.   I didn't notice any change in powder variation due to the arm.

It's also convenient.   My single stage bench is only temporarily mounted, as needed, via T-Track and spends most of it's time below the counter top.   The swing arm can be tucked back over the press, so I don't have to disassemble it for storage.   It fits into the same basic footprint as the press with the inline mount.

The quality is in the same league as their mounts.  It has the same heavy duty powder coating and it was flawless.  For something like a mount, I wouldn't get worked up at a few finishing blemishes, but they finish their stuff like it's going into a high dollar custom rifle.   It's flawless.

I can't recommend their stuff enough.  One of these days I'm going to have to break down and buy their tray system for the Hornady...